WEBVTT FILE

1
00:00:05.840 --> 00:00:11.680
Hello. This is 6 Minute English from BBC Learning 
English. I’m Georgina. And I’m Neil. Neil,

2
00:00:11.680 --> 00:00:17.680
this may sound a bit personal, but have you ever
taken your clothes off? Err, well, yes. Every

3
00:00:17.680 --> 00:00:23.199
day when I have a shower. Of course. I mean in 
public – have you ever been naked in public?

4
00:00:23.840 --> 00:00:30.480
No! Stripping off – or getting naked - publicly, 
is not my idea of fun. Who would enjoy doing

5
00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:36.159
that? Well, naturists would. That’s what we 
call people who think not wearing clothes

6
00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:42.639
outdoors is a healthy way to live, and it makes 
them feel good. We might also call them nudists,

7
00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:49.199
because they are nude. Right, so naturists feel 
being naked is natural – it’s not about them being

8
00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:55.440
interested in nature?! Not necessarily, but we are 
going to discuss why being naked in nature might

9
00:00:55.440 --> 00:01:01.120
be good for us. But how about a question first, 
Neil? The act of swimming naked is informally

10
00:01:01.120 --> 00:01:08.880
called skinny dipping. The world’s largest skinny 
dip took place in Ireland in 2018 - but do you

11
00:01:08.880 --> 00:01:16.540
know how many naked swimmers went into the 
sea? Was it approximately… a) 250 people,

12
00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:27.760
b) 2,500 people, or c) 25,000 people? I’d have 
to guess and say that only 250 people would be

13
00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:34.080
brave enough to run into the cold sea, naked! 
Well, as always, I’ll reveal the answer later.

14
00:01:34.080 --> 00:01:39.680
So, the idea of getting naked might fill you with 
dread - it might seem embarrassing - but some

15
00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:46.160
people do sunbathe naked on the beach or in their 
garden or they go to naturist holiday parks. But

16
00:01:46.160 --> 00:01:52.080
naked rambling – walking naked in the countryside 
– might be taking it one step further. However,  

17
00:01:52.080 --> 00:01:57.760
it’s something Donna Price, a volunteer at British 
Naturism, is keen to advocate – or publicly

18
00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:04.960
support. Here she is, speaking on BBC Radio 4’s 
Woman’s Hour programme, explaining why… We enjoy

19
00:02:04.960 --> 00:02:11.680
the feeling of being at one with nature. If you 
haven't actually tried being naked in nature, and

20
00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:17.840
naked outdoors, when you can feel the skin, the 
warmth air all over your skin, it's such a lovely

21
00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:24.000
feeling. There is a great feeling of liberation 
and freedom once you actually try naturism - and

22
00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:28.639
I would never advocate for someone to actually go 
out for a naked walk as the first thing they ever

23
00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:34.511
did - I just would not do that! You've got to be 
comfortable in your own skin, so you do it at home, at ...

24
00:02:34.512 --> 00:02:39.840
you know, in your own garden maybe if you can - get 
comfortable with yourself, actually start to

25
00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:47.280
feel that being naked feels normal, which, I mean, to me, 
it does. So, for Donna, naked rambling means she

26
00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:53.360
has a connection with nature, she feels part of it 
and it makes her feel good – that’s the feeling of

27
00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:59.360
being at one with nature. Hmm, but couldn’t you do 
that with your clothes on? Well, she also mentions

28
00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:04.080
there’s a feeling of freedom and liberation – that’s being freed from something – here,

29
00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:09.760
it’s freed from your clothes. Donna also told the 
Woman’s Hour programme that going for a naked walk

30
00:03:09.760 --> 00:03:14.639
shouldn’t be the first thing you attempt to do. 
You need to feel relaxed and confident with your

31
00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:20.159
actions first – or what we sometimes 
say is ‘comfortable in your own skin’. 

32
00:03:20.160 --> 00:03:25.360
Yes, she says we need to get to feel that 
nakedness is normal. I suppose we were all  

33
00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:31.440
born naked and it’s not something to be ashamed 
of. And, in the UK at least, it’s generally not  

34
00:03:31.440 --> 00:03:37.600
against the law to be naked in public. Hmm, I’m 
still not convinced, but according to Donna Price,  

35
00:03:37.600 --> 00:03:43.119
this freedom of expression is quite well received 
when she’s out walking. Here she is speaking on  

36
00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:49.440
the BBC’s Woman’s Hour programme again… A majority 
of the responses that you actually encounter, if  

37
00:03:49.440 --> 00:03:57.280
you do encounter the public, the general public, 
are actually very encouraging. They're not shock,  

38
00:03:57.280 --> 00:04:02.827
horror majority of the time, I can guarantee 
that. A lot of people say just 'good morning'  

39
00:04:02.827 --> 00:04:09.200
and carry on, some of them actually say 'gosh, 
you're braver than I am’ if it’s a bit chilly.  

40
00:04:09.200 --> 00:04:15.440
A lot of them just say, ' I really wish I could 
do that' and usually we just say 'you can!'. So,  

41
00:04:15.440 --> 00:04:20.959
the people Donna encounters – or meets – seem 
to support what she’s doing. She says it's not  

42
00:04:20.960 --> 00:04:25.839
shock, horror – this is usually said as an 
informal way of actually saying something  

43
00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:31.279
is not surprising, not shocking! 
Well, shock, horror, Neil, I won’t be taking my clothes off  

44
00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:36.799
anytime soon – it’s too cold anyway and I don’t 
want to be bitten by all those bugs you get in the  

45
00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:42.560
countryside. But it’s good to hear that people are 
open-minded to the idea. Yes, good luck to anyone  

46
00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:47.520
who wants to give it a try and well done to those 
brave people who took part in the world’s biggest  

47
00:04:47.520 --> 00:04:54.000
skinny dip – a mass naked swim. Earlier, Georgina, 
you asked me how many people took part in the  

48
00:04:54.000 --> 00:05:01.920
event in Ireland in 2018. I did, and you said? 
I said about 250 people went for a dip. Was I right?  

49
00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:09.279
No, Neil. According to Guinness World Records, 
2,505 women took part in the largest charity  

50
00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:15.039
skinny dip in Wicklow in Ireland. Well, well 
done to them, and skinny dipping was one of the

51
00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:20.400
items of vocabulary we discussed today. This is 
an informal way of describing the act of swimming

52
00:05:20.400 --> 00:05:25.919
naked. We’ve also been discussing naturists - 
people who think not wearing clothes outdoors

53
00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:31.040
is a healthy way to live, and it makes them 
feel good. The act of doing this is called

54
00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:37.200
'naturism'. And when you advocate something, like 
naturism for example, you publicly support it.  

55
00:05:37.200 --> 00:05:42.697
'Being at one with nature' means having a connection 
with the natural world that makes you feel good.

56
00:05:42.697 --> 00:05:48.720
And 'liberation' means being freed from something. 
And when we say ‘shock, horror!’, we actually mean  

57
00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:53.760
the opposite and mean something in not shocking 
or surprising – we’re being sarcastic, I guess.  

58
00:05:53.760 --> 00:05:58.560
It’s not like you to be sarcastic, Neil! 
But shock, horror – we’re out of time now.  

59
00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:03.840
We only get 6 minutes and that’s the naked 
truth! Thanks for listening and goodbye. Goodbye.

60
00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:15.040
Hello. This is 6 Minute English from BBC 
Learning English. I'm Neil. And I'm Sam.  

61
00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:21.679
When Neil and I record 6 Minute English 
face-to-face in the BBC Learning English  

62
00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:27.680
studio, which, I am happy to say, we are doing 
right now, we look at each other as we speak.  

63
00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:33.600
We smile and use hand gestures and facial 
expressions in a type of communication called  

64
00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:39.279
'body language'. But during the Covid pandemic, 
everyday meetings with work colleagues, teachers  

65
00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:45.679
and friends, and 6 Minute English recordings - 
all moved online. Video meetings using software  

66
00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:50.720
like Zoom and Skype became the normal way 
to communicate with family and friends.  

67
00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:56.239
And whatever happens with Covid in the future, 
it seems they're here to stay. In this programme,  

68
00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:02.080
we'll be asking: how has body language changed 
in the world of online video meetings? We'll  

69
00:07:02.080 --> 00:07:08.720
meet the person who wrote the rulebook for clear 
communication in the digital age - Erica Dhawan,  

70
00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:14.480
author of a new book, 'Digital Body Language'. 
But before that, I have a question for you, Sam,  

71
00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:20.320
and it's about Erica Dhawan. She may be a 
communications expert now, but growing up in  

72
00:07:20.320 --> 00:07:26.800
Pennsylvania she was a shy and quiet schoolgirl. 
So how did Erica beat her shyness and become the  

73
00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:32.640
confident communicator she is today? Did 
she: a) attend public speaking classes?,  

74
00:07:32.640 --> 00:07:38.880
b) copy the body language of the cool kids at 
school? or, c) raised her hand to answer the  

75
00:07:38.880 --> 00:07:45.040
teacher's questions, even if she didn't know the 
answer? I'll guess 'c' - she raised her hand  

76
00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:50.880
to answer the teacher's questions. OK, Sam. We'll 
reveal the correct answer later in the programme.  

77
00:07:51.520 --> 00:07:57.440
In face-to-face meetings, we immediately see 
someone's reaction to what we've said through eye  

78
00:07:57.440 --> 00:08:03.600
contact, where two people look into each other's 
eyes as they talk. Unfortunately, using a web  

79
00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:10.000
camera to make eye contact is almost impossible in 
online meetings and this often creates a kind of  

80
00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:16.000
'distancing' effect. Erica Dhawan makes several 
suggestions to help with this. See if you can  

81
00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:22.320
hear the final suggestion she makes to Michael 
Rosen as part of BBC Radio 4's Word of Mouth.  

82
00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:29.919
And last but not least, slow down. Remember when 
it was completely normal to have a one-minute  

83
00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:33.920
pause in a room with one another because we 
knew when we're thinking and brainstorming.  

84
00:08:33.920 --> 00:08:38.960
If we don't hear someone speak on video, we 
ask them if they're on mute. Practise what I  

85
00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:43.600
call the five-second rule - wait five seconds 
before speaking to make sure that individuals  

86
00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:48.880
have time to process the ideas, especially if 
there may be technology or accessibility issues.  

87
00:08:50.400 --> 00:08:56.959
Did you hear Erica's last piece of advice, Neil? 
Yes, she recommends slowing down, something we do  

88
00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:02.000
naturally face-to-face when we're thinking or 
brainstorming - that's discussing suggestions  

89
00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:08.880
with a group of people to come up with new ideas 
or to solve problems. Slowing down gives us time  

90
00:09:08.880 --> 00:09:14.880
to process new information - to understand it 
by thinking carefully and reflecting on it.  

91
00:09:14.880 --> 00:09:21.360
Erica compares online body language to learning 
a new language - it takes practice, especially  

92
00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:27.360
when it comes to smiling and laughing, something 
Michael Rosen finds hard to do in video meetings.  

93
00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:31.840
Listen to him discussing this problem 
with Erica Dhawan for BBC Radio 4's,  

94
00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:37.520
Word of Mouth. Do you think it's killing off 
people laughing and smiling in the way we do when  

95
00:09:37.520 --> 00:09:43.520
we're altogether in the live situation? I would 
say that it is much less likely that we laugh and  

96
00:09:43.520 --> 00:09:50.079
smile on camera for a few reasons. Number one, 
laughing is often done in unison where we can  

97
00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:55.680
quickly pick up the energy of someone smiling or 
laughing and feed off of that and laugh ourselves.  

98
00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:00.720
When it comes to screen delays, the fact that 
it's not natural to see our own camera - being  

99
00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:06.480
distracted by that - we are much less likely to 
laugh and smile. One of the ways we can overcome  

100
00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:12.320
this is by creating intentional moments in 
our meetings for the water cooler effect.  

101
00:10:13.760 --> 00:10:20.559
Erica points out that laughing often happens 
in unison - together and at the same time.  

102
00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:25.519
Yes, if someone starts laughing it makes me 
laugh too. She also thinks it's important  

103
00:10:25.520 --> 00:10:31.679
to make time for employees to chat informally 
about things unrelated to work - their weekend  

104
00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:38.639
plans or last night's TV show. And she uses the 
expression, 'the water cooler effect' which comes  

105
00:10:38.640 --> 00:10:43.893
from the United States where office workers 
sometimes meet at the water fountain to chat.  

106
00:10:44.160 --> 00:10:49.600
So, the water cooler effect refers to informal 
conversations that people have in their office or  

107
00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:56.400
workplace, maybe in the lift, the office kitchen 
or, if there is one, by an actual water cooler.  

108
00:10:56.400 --> 00:11:01.919
Erica Dhawan seems very comfortable communicating 
online, but she's had lots of time to practice  

109
00:11:01.920 --> 00:11:07.920
since her schooldays. Ah yes, Neil, in your 
quiz question you asked how Erica conquered her  

110
00:11:07.920 --> 00:11:13.600
shyness at school. I guessed that she raised 
her hand to answer the teacher's questions.  

111
00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:17.679
It was a good guess, Sam, but the 
correct answer is b - she copied the  

112
00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:25.039
body language of her cool teenage classmates, 
so probably lots of rolled eyes and slouching!  

113
00:11:25.040 --> 00:11:31.120
OK, let's recap the vocabulary from this programme 
about online body language - non-verbal ways of  

114
00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:37.040
communicating using the body. Eye contact is 
when two people look at each other's eyes at  

115
00:11:37.040 --> 00:11:43.360
the same time. Brainstorming involves a group 
discussion to generate new ideas or solutions.  

116
00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:49.679
When we process information, we think about it 
carefully in order to understand it. 'In unison'  

117
00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:56.079
means happening together and at the same time. And 
finally, 'the water cooler effect' is an American  

118
00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:02.000
expression to describe informal conversations 
between people at work. Neil is looking at his  

119
00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:07.843
watch, which is body language that tells me our 
six minutes are up! Goodbye for now! Goodbye!  

120
00:12:13.986 --> 00:12:20.800
Hello. This is 6 Minute English from BBC Learning 
English. I'm Sam. And I'm Neil. Sleep - we all  

121
00:12:20.800 --> 00:12:27.280
need it - some more than others. I can usually get 
by with around seven hours a night but I do like  

122
00:12:27.280 --> 00:12:32.799
to have a nap - a short sleep - in the afternoon, 
when I'm not working of course. How about you,  

123
00:12:32.800 --> 00:12:38.960
Neil? I'm always tired and as soon as my head hits 
the pillow, I'm out like a light - meaning I go  

124
00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:44.320
to sleep very quickly. Well, Neil, you might 
not survive in South Korea then. Apparently,  

125
00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:50.400
it's one of the most stressed and tired nations on 
earth - a place where people work and study longer  

126
00:12:50.400 --> 00:12:56.559
hours and get less sleep than anywhere else. We'll 
find out more later and teach some sleep-related  

127
00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:01.999
vocabulary. But before we do, you need to 
give me a question to keep me awake and alert!  

128
00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:10.640
Of course I do, and here it is. In the 1960s, 
American man, Randy Gardner, set the world record  

129
00:13:10.640 --> 00:13:19.040
for staying awake for the longest period. Do you 
know what that time was? Was it: a) 64 hours, b)  

130
00:13:19.040 --> 00:13:29.440
164 hours, or c) 264 hours? All sound impossible 
but I'll guess a) 64 hours - that's nearly 3  

131
00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:35.360
days! I'll give you the answer later 
in the programme - assuming you don't doze off!  

132
00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:40.400
But let's talk more about sleep now. As I 
mentioned, we all need it to help our mind  

133
00:13:40.400 --> 00:13:46.919
and body rest and relax. And going without sleep 
- or sleeplessness - is bad for our health.  

134
00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:54.080
Many things can stop us sleeping and some of them 
are pressure, anxiety and stress caused by your  

135
00:13:54.080 --> 00:14:00.800
job. And in South Korea research has shown it's 
become increasingly difficult to switch off - stop  

136
00:14:00.800 --> 00:14:07.040
thinking about work and relax. South Koreans sleep 
fewer hours and have higher rates of depression  

137
00:14:07.040 --> 00:14:12.960
and suicide than almost anywhere else. Se-Woong 
Koo has been reporting on this for the BBC World  

138
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:19.733
Service Documentary podcast. He met one worker 
who explained why she never got time to relax.  

139
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:27.040
Separating work and rest time has been a recurring 
issue for Ji-an - in her last job her office hours  

140
00:14:27.040 --> 00:14:33.200
were long. Like most Korean firms, her employer 
didn't think about any boundaries. They encroached  

141
00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:42.080
on almost all her time. They told me 'you need 
to be contactable 24/7' - there will always be  

142
00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:45.639
someone from work reaching out to me, like 
needing to get something done right now.  

143
00:14:45.854 --> 00:14:51.920
Even just thinking about it, I get really 
agitated. So, that stressed out worker got  

144
00:14:51.920 --> 00:14:58.800
agitated just thinking about the situation - she 
got worried or upset. That's because office hours  

145
00:14:58.800 --> 00:15:06.080
in South Korea are long and some employers expect 
their workers to be contactable all the time. Yes,  

146
00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:12.160
there are no boundaries - so no limits or rules 
about when employers can contact their employees.  

147
00:15:12.160 --> 00:15:18.400
Therefore, as this employee said, work encroached 
- it gradually took over - her leisure time.  

148
00:15:19.040 --> 00:15:24.160
Stress like this can lead to insomnia - a 
condition where you are unable to sleep.  

149
00:15:24.160 --> 00:15:29.679
The BBC Discovery podcast goes on to explain 
that offering a cure for this sleeplessness  

150
00:15:29.680 --> 00:15:36.320
has become big business. There are sleep clinics 
where doctors assess people overnight, and sleep  

151
00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:42.000
cafes that offer places to nap in the middle of 
the working day. One other issue in South Korea  

152
00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:48.080
that's affecting sleep is the 'bali bali' culture, 
meaning 'quickly, quickly' or 'hurry, hurry'.  

153
00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:54.000
People are constantly in a rush. Doctor Lee 
spoke to the World Service's Discovery podcast  

154
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:59.440
about the effects of this and how even 
trying to take medication to help sleep,  

155
00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:09.040
has its problems. People take like, ten or 
twenty pills per one night, and because they  

156
00:16:09.040 --> 00:16:15.520
cannot fall asleep even with the medication, they 
drink alcohol on top of that, and they experience  

157
00:16:15.520 --> 00:16:23.280
side-effects of the medication. People 
can sleepwalk, and go to the refrigerator,  

158
00:16:23.280 --> 00:16:30.000
eat a lot of things unconsciously - uncooked 
food, and they don't remember the next day. There  

159
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:36.000
were cases of car accidents in the centre of 
Seoul which has been sleepwalking patients.  

160
00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:42.480
So, some people are taking lots of pills to 
help them sleep but they're not working so  

161
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:47.760
they're drinking alcohol as well. This leads 
to side-effects - unpleasant and unexpected  

162
00:16:47.760 --> 00:16:53.600
results from the medication. It seems, one of 
these side-effects is sleepwalking - moving  

163
00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:58.080
around and doing things while still asleep. 
Well, if sleeping pills aren't working,  

164
00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:03.760
there's always meditation - or working less. 
At least South Koreans are getting some sleep,  

165
00:17:03.760 --> 00:17:07.840
unlike Randy Gardner who I asked you 
about earlier. Yes, he holds the record  

166
00:17:07.840 --> 00:17:13.449
for staying awake the longest. And I thought 
he stayed awake for 64 hours. Was I right?  

167
00:17:13.765 --> 00:17:23.759
No, Neil. Not long enough. Randy Gardner stayed 
awake for an incredible 264.4 hours - that's 11  

168
00:17:23.760 --> 00:17:31.840
days and 25 minutes - in January 1964. That's 
one record I really don't want to beat. Well,  

169
00:17:31.840 --> 00:17:36.399
before you nod off Neil, let's recap some 
of the vocabulary we've been discussing,  

170
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:42.000
including 'go out like a light', which means 
you go to sleep very quickly. When you switch  

171
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.840
off you stop concentrating on one thing 
and start thinking about something else.  

172
00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:53.200
A lack of sleep or rest can make you 'agitated' 
- you get worried or upset. 'Encroach' means  

173
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:59.440
gradually take over. When you take medication and 
it gives you an unpleasant and unexpected results,  

174
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:05.760
we call these side-effects. And sleepwalking 
describes moving around and doing things while  

175
00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:12.170
still asleep. That's our six minutes up. Goodbye 
and sweet dreams! Goodbye!

176
00:18:17.806 --> 00:18:23.157
Hello and welcome to 6 Minute English, I'm Neil. And joining me it's Rob. Hello!

177
00:18:23.157 --> 00:18:28.877
Now Rob, would you say you're someone who is quite organised? I'd like to think so. What's the best way

178
00:18:28.878 --> 00:18:35.280
to organise everything? You need a 'to-do' list - a list of all the jobs you need to do that you can work your  

179
00:18:35.280 --> 00:18:39.920
way through. That's a good idea and something 
we can include in today's discussion about  

180
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:45.119
life admin. Admin is short for administration 
- that describes the activities and tasks you  

181
00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:50.959
have to do to make a business or organisation 
run smoothly - but life admin is administration  

182
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:56.320
you have to do to make your day-to-day life run 
smoothly - like doing housework, or paying a  

183
00:18:56.320 --> 00:19:00.879
bill. And the first thing on my 'to-do' list 
is to ask you and the listeners, a question.  

184
00:19:01.520 --> 00:19:06.560
Yes, you wouldn't want to forget that. So, the 
website Hotels.com commissioned some research  

185
00:19:06.560 --> 00:19:12.640
about how much time young adults - that's 
millennials - spend doing life admin. Do you  

186
00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:18.560
know what proportion of their free time they spend 
doing life admin tasks? Is it... a) a quarter of a  

187
00:19:18.560 --> 00:19:25.040
day, b) a third of a day, c) half a day? Based 
on my personal experience, I would say about a  

188
00:19:25.040 --> 00:19:29.840
quarter of a day. Well, we'll see if you're the 
same as other people at the end of the programme.  

189
00:19:29.840 --> 00:19:35.280
But as we all know, life admin is necessary 
but it can be a bit of a chore - a boring,  

190
00:19:35.280 --> 00:19:41.040
ordinary task you do regularly. Experts have 
studied the subject and looked at how we do it  

191
00:19:41.040 --> 00:19:46.240
and how we can make it less boring. One of them 
is Elizabeth Emens, Professor of Law at Columbia  

192
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:52.560
University and author of The Art of Life Admin. 
She's been speaking to the BBC Radio 4 programme,  

193
00:19:52.560 --> 00:19:58.000
Woman's Hour, and described what she thought life 
admin is. Life admin is the  

194
00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:03.840
office work of life, it's the invisible layer 
of work that is the kind of thing that managers  

195
00:20:03.840 --> 00:20:10.560
and secretaries, aka admins, do for pay in 
the office but that everyone does in their  

196
00:20:10.560 --> 00:20:18.400
own lives for free. She calls life admin the 
invisible layer of work - so it's work, tasks  

197
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:23.600
or chores we carry out that people don't notice 
we're doing - or don't realise we have to do them  

198
00:20:23.600 --> 00:20:29.040
it's extra work in our life. And we don't get paid 
for it - unless we're at work when it is the role  

199
00:20:29.040 --> 00:20:37.119
of someone to do it - such as secretaries or aka 
admins - aka is short for 'also known as' - so  

200
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:43.279
secretaries might also be known as admins - that 
is short for people who do administration. Right,  

201
00:20:43.280 --> 00:20:48.960
so we know life admin is boring and we don't get 
paid for it - and also, trying to renew your house  

202
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:54.800
insurance or trying to query a bill with a utility 
company can be frustrating and feels like a waste  

203
00:20:54.800 --> 00:21:00.080
of time. A utility company by the way, is one 
that supplies something such as electricity,  

204
00:21:00.080 --> 00:21:05.840
gas, or water to the public. My problem is I 
never get round to doing my life admin - there  

205
00:21:05.840 --> 00:21:11.119
are better things to do - so you could say I 
procrastinate - I delay doing things until later,  

206
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:14.799
probably because I don't want to do 
them. You are what Elizabeth classifies  

207
00:21:14.800 --> 00:21:20.720
as an 'admin avoider'. So this is where my to-do 
list comes in handy, Neil. You have a written  

208
00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:26.160
record of tasks that can be quite satisfying to 
cross off as you do them. This is something  

209
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:31.760
Elizabeth Emen has found to work, at least for 
some people. Let's hear from her again. What  

210
00:21:31.760 --> 00:21:36.960
type of people did she find get most satisfaction 
from completing a to-do list?

211
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:41.440
If you've ever made a list and put things on 
it you've already done, just to cross them out,  

212
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.920
then you know the kind of 'done it' pleasure that 
goes with that. But actually I interviewed people,  

213
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:51.520
especially the super-doers that I interviewed, 
actually can find real pleasure in the actual  

214
00:21:51.520 --> 00:21:57.280
doing of it - and, so, trying to understand how we can 
get to that when we have to do it - how we can  

215
00:21:57.280 --> 00:22:03.520
make it so that there is some meaning in it and 
some texture and there're ways of doing it that  

216
00:22:03.520 --> 00:22:10.720
please us. So, she was describing the super-doers 
- these are the people who love admin and would  

217
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:15.440
spend an evening putting their book collection 
into alphabetical order! Elizabeth mentioned  

218
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:21.280
that we should learn from the super-doers and get 
some 'done it' pleasure in doing our life admin.  

219
00:22:21.280 --> 00:22:25.600
We need to find a meaning for doing it - in 
other words, what is represents - so we can see  

220
00:22:25.600 --> 00:22:31.680
the benefit of completing our to-do list. How we 
find pleasure from doing life admin is different  

221
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:36.480
for different people - so personally, I think 
I'll stick with being an 'admin avoider' - but  

222
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:42.080
that might explain why I just got charged extra 
for not paying my credit card bill on time!  

223
00:22:42.080 --> 00:22:46.720
Well, please don't avoid giving us the answer 
to the quiz question you asked us earlier.  

224
00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:51.920
Yes. Earlier I asked, researchers, 
commissioned by Hotels.com, polled 2,000  

225
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:58.240
young professionals about their lives. How much 
of their free time do they spend doing life  

226
00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:05.200
admin? Is it... a) quarter of a day, b) a third of 
a day, c) half a day? And I said a) a quarter of  

227
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:10.320
a day. Yes, they spend a quarter of their days 
carrying out tasks like doctor's appointments,  

228
00:23:10.320 --> 00:23:16.800
waiting in for packages to be delivered and doing 
household chores. Boring! Unlike this programme  

229
00:23:16.800 --> 00:23:22.400
Neil, which is not a chore - one of the words 
we discussed today. Yes, our vocabulary today  

230
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:28.640
included chore - a boring, ordinary task you do 
regularly. We also mentioned admin, short for  

231
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:34.080
administration - the activities and tasks you have 
to do make a business, organisation or just your  

232
00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:42.080
life, run smoothly. We heard aka - meaning 'also 
known as' - so for example, Rob aka The master of  

233
00:23:42.080 --> 00:23:47.599
6 Minute English! Thanks very much, Neil. Next 
we heard utility company. That's a company that  

234
00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:53.680
supplies something such as electricity, gas, or 
water to the public. And we also heard how Neil  

235
00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:59.119
likes to procrastinate - that's delay doing things 
until later, probably because he doesn't want to  

236
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:03.919
do them. Finally, we mentioned super-doers - 
an informal term to describe people who get  

237
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:10.320
satisfaction out of doing life admin and do lots 
of it. Like me. Well, it's time to go now but  

238
00:24:10.320 --> 00:24:15.839
there's plenty more to discover on our website at 
bbclearningenglish.com. Goodbye for now. Bye bye.  

239
00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:27.760
Hello. This is 6 Minute English from BBC Learning 
English. I'm Neil. And I'm Rob. Do you enjoy your  

240
00:24:27.760 --> 00:24:32.720
own company, Rob? Do you like being alone? 
Or do you prefer spending time with friends?  

241
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:38.080
Well, recently I haven't seen my friends much 
because of coronavirus - in fact, I've hardly  

242
00:24:38.080 --> 00:24:44.400
seen anyone this past year! It sounds like Rob has 
become a bit of a hermit - someone who lives alone  

243
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:50.320
and apart from society. Yes, I've been forced to 
spend time alone - but it wouldn't be my choice.  

244
00:24:50.320 --> 00:24:55.520
I'd much rather be socialising and visiting 
friends. If, like Rob, the idea of being  

245
00:24:55.520 --> 00:25:01.600
alone does not appeal to you, it might be hard to 
understand why anyone would choose to be a hermit.  

246
00:25:01.600 --> 00:25:05.920
But some people do - and in this programme 
we'll be hearing some of the reasons why.  

247
00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:11.200
Throughout history and across all cultures, there 
have been people who choose to leave behind the  

248
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:17.040
life and people the know to live in isolation 
and silence. People like Christopher Wright - an  

249
00:25:17.040 --> 00:25:22.880
American man who lived in complete isolation 
in the forests of Maine for nearly 30 years!  

250
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:29.040
When hikers discovered his tent all they found 
was an alarm clock. So, my quiz question is this:  

251
00:25:29.040 --> 00:25:33.760
why did Christopher Wright, the hermit of 
the Maine woods, need an alarm clock? Was it:  

252
00:25:33.760 --> 00:25:40.880
a) to remind him when to hide his tent?, b) to 
frighten away wild animals?, or c) to wake him up  

253
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:45.920
at the coldest part of the night so he didn't 
freeze to death? Well, if he wanted to be alone  

254
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:52.495
so much, I guess he needed to be invisible, so 
I'll say a) to remind him to hide his tent.  

255
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:58.080
OK, Rob, we'll find out the answer later. 
Christopher Wright may be an extreme example  

256
00:25:58.080 --> 00:26:03.200
of someone seeking solitude, but there are 
many other motivations for becoming a hermit.  

257
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:08.640
Some people are looking for peace and silence, 
and for others it's about being closer to God,  

258
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:15.199
focusing on what's inside and finding a sense of 
joy. Meng Hu is a former librarian who now runs a  

259
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:21.600
website all about hermits. He says that in ancient 
times, many Chinese hermits seeking solitude were  

260
00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:27.280
followers of the philosopher, Confucius. Here's 
Meng Hu talking about Confucius to BBC World  

261
00:26:27.280 --> 00:26:35.600
Service programme, The Why Factor: His dictum 
was something like, 'When the Emperor is good,  

262
00:26:35.600 --> 00:26:43.200
serve. When the Emperor is evil, recluse'. And 
so over a thousand years at least there were  

263
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:49.920
a lot of recluses, there were a lot of educated men who 
simply couldn't tolerate any more evil - they  

264
00:26:49.920 --> 00:27:00.480
simply dropped out and they would migrate to small 
villages, to farms. Meng Hu mentions Confucius's  

265
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:05.999
dictum. A dictum is a short statement or saying 
which expresses some wise advice or a general  

266
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:12.080
truth about life. Confucius's dictum advised that 
when the Emperor was evil, people should become  

267
00:27:12.080 --> 00:27:18.080
recluses - people, like hermits, who live alone 
and avoid contact with others. In the interview,  

268
00:27:18.080 --> 00:27:24.240
Meng Hu uses 'recluse' as a verb - to recluse 
- but this is very uncommon. A more modern way  

269
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:29.920
of saying this is, to drop out - to reject the 
normal ways society works and live outside the  

270
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:35.680
system. A bit like the hippies in the 1960s, you 
mean? Right. Although most hippies weren't looking  

271
00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:41.040
for isolation, they did have something in common 
with hermits - the desire to challenge society's  

272
00:27:41.040 --> 00:27:47.280
rules and conventions. Someone who combines 
the hippie and the hermit is Catholic writer,  

273
00:27:47.280 --> 00:27:52.880
Sara Maitland. Part of a long tradition of 
Christian hermits, Sara spent forty days and  

274
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:58.926
nights alone on the Isle of Skye, seeking God 
in the silence of the remote Scottish island.  

275
00:27:59.600 --> 00:28:04.800
For her, the magic of silence is something to be 
embraced and taught to children. Here she explains  

276
00:28:04.800 --> 00:28:11.920
more to BBC World Service's, The Why Factor. Most 
people first encounter silence in bereavement,  

277
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:20.240
in relationship breakdown and in death and that 
seems to be about the worst place to start.  

278
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:25.759
People say, 'But what should we do?' Never, ever 
use 'Go to your room on your own' as a punishment.  

279
00:28:25.760 --> 00:28:31.119
You use it as a reward - 'Darling, you've been so 
good all day, you've been so helpful, why don't  

280
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:38.559
you go to your room for half an hour now and be on 
your own?' A treat! A reward! Sara says that most  

281
00:28:38.560 --> 00:28:44.720
people experience silence after a bereavement 
- the death of a relative or close friend. She  

282
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.200
also thinks that parents should never tell their 
children, 'Go to your room!' as a punishment.  

283
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:55.280
Instead, being alone should be a treat - a reward 
or gift of something special and enjoyable.  

284
00:28:55.280 --> 00:29:00.560
That way, children learn that being alone can 
actually be enjoyable. I'm still wondering about  

285
00:29:00.560 --> 00:29:05.600
that American, Christopher Wright - I suppose 
living alone in the woods was a treat for him...  

286
00:29:05.600 --> 00:29:11.680
I suppose so - but why did he need an alarm clock? 
Ah yes, your quiz question, Neil. I thought maybe  

287
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:17.280
it was to remind him to hide his tent. Was I 
right? Well incredibly, Rob, the answer was c)  

288
00:29:17.280 --> 00:29:22.960
to wake him up at the coldest part of the night 
so he didn't freeze to death! That's someone who  

289
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:29.040
really wants to be left alone! A 'hermit' in other 
words, or a 'recluse' - two ways of describing  

290
00:29:29.040 --> 00:29:34.400
people who live alone and avoid others. OK, 
let's recap the rest of the vocabulary, starting  

291
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:40.828
with 'dictum' - a short saying often giving wise 
advice or expressing a general truth about life.  

292
00:29:40.828 --> 00:29:46.960
People who 'drop out' reject the normal rules of 
society and live outside the system. Many people  

293
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:52.800
experience solitude after a bereavement - the 
death of a close friend or relative. And finally  

294
00:29:52.800 --> 00:29:59.359
'a treat' is reward or gift of something special and 
enjoyable. That's all for now, but whether you're  

295
00:29:59.360 --> 00:30:04.323
listening alone or with others, we hope you'll 
join us again soon, here at 6 Minute English.  

296
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:10.640
Don't forget - you'll find us on our website or 
you can download our free app, so you won't miss  

297
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:17.280
any of our programmes. And we are on all the 
main social media sites. Bye bye! Bye for now!